Comments on: Inform 7 is insanely wonderful and full of words http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words It's all spinning wheels and self-doubt until the first pot of coffee. Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:46:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7-hemorrhage hourly 1 By: Aristotle Pagaltzis http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-12521 Aristotle Pagaltzis Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:21:57 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-12521 <p>Hey, <a href="http://www.onlamp.com/lpt/a/6602" rel="nofollow">it even found its way onto the O’Reilly network</a>.</p> Hey, it even found its way onto the O’Reilly network.

]]> By: Dino Morelli http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10939 Dino Morelli Fri, 12 May 2006 20:42:58 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10939 <p></p><p>Matt Brubeck said:</p> <p></p><p><blockquote><em>I respect their decision not to GPL the compiler, but I'm slightly less excited than I would be if it were really open.</em></blockquote></p> <p></p><p>I have to agree with Matt on this. I'm a programmer. And I don't mean a mouse-oriented, Eclipse IDE-loving programmer. I mean a vi, makefile, command-shell programmer.</p> <p></p><p>So, if I can't use my text editor and can't build binaries from source with the command line (as you would with make), then I can't use it. It's just not programming in the sense that I've come to enjoy for the past 25 years.</p> <p></p><p>All that aside, after reading the new manual, I think this language is fantastic. Wow. I very much want to try it. I hope at some point non-IDE programmers can have access to the tools to compile this new language.</p> <p></p><p>I'm really blown away by what these guys, Mr. Nelson, Emily Short and everyone else, have done here. Wow again.</p>

Matt Brubeck said:

I respect their decision not to GPL the compiler, but I'm slightly less excited than I would be if it were really open.

I have to agree with Matt on this. I'm a programmer. And I don't mean a mouse-oriented, Eclipse IDE-loving programmer. I mean a vi, makefile, command-shell programmer.

So, if I can't use my text editor and can't build binaries from source with the command line (as you would with make), then I can't use it. It's just not programming in the sense that I've come to enjoy for the past 25 years.

All that aside, after reading the new manual, I think this language is fantastic. Wow. I very much want to try it. I hope at some point non-IDE programmers can have access to the tools to compile this new language.

I'm really blown away by what these guys, Mr. Nelson, Emily Short and everyone else, have done here. Wow again.

]]> By: Matt Brubeck http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10614 Matt Brubeck Tue, 02 May 2006 19:33:46 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10614 <p>Strictly speaking, this isn't (all) Open Source software: While the source code to the GUI is under the GPL, the source code to the compiler will be available only under a "look but don't touch" license (same as Inform 6). I respect their decision not to GPL the compiler, but I'm slightly less excited than I would be if it were really open.</p> Strictly speaking, this isn't (all) Open Source software: While the source code to the GUI is under the GPL, the source code to the compiler will be available only under a "look but don't touch" license (same as Inform 6). I respect their decision not to GPL the compiler, but I'm slightly less excited than I would be if it were really open.

]]> By: l.m.orchard http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10600 l.m.orchard Tue, 02 May 2006 10:54:44 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10600 <p>And, to answer my own question, a <a href="http://brasslantern.org/writers/howto/i7intro-c.html" rel="nofollow">quote from a Brass Lantern article</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p>If I7 is built on top of I6, can you get access to I6 within I7 code? Yes. You drop down into I6 by surrounding your I6 code with "(-" and "-)".</p> <p><code>To end the game in death: (- deadflag=1; -).</code></p> <p>You can use small snippets of I6 code, as above, or include entire routines. This can be useful for programming tasks that are much more easily handled in a procedural language such as I6.</p> <p>The drawback to doing so is a loss of readability: much as when you embed assembly directives in C, you now need to understand two very different languages. You can encapsulate I6 code and give it a natural-language form; in fact, parts of the I7 standard library do just that.</p> </blockquote> And, to answer my own question, a quote from a Brass Lantern article:

If I7 is built on top of I6, can you get access to I6 within I7 code? Yes. You drop down into I6 by surrounding your I6 code with "(-" and "-)".

To end the game in death: (- deadflag=1; -).

You can use small snippets of I6 code, as above, or include entire routines. This can be useful for programming tasks that are much more easily handled in a procedural language such as I6.

The drawback to doing so is a loss of readability: much as when you embed assembly directives in C, you now need to understand two very different languages. You can encapsulate I6 code and give it a natural-language form; in fact, parts of the I7 standard library do just that.

]]> By: l.m.orchard http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10572 l.m.orchard Tue, 02 May 2006 00:36:56 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10572 <p>Oh, but speaking of ability to complex things in Inform 7, one of the examples at which I've peeked is "Damnatio Memoriae":</p> <p><a href="http://inform-fiction.org/I7Downloads/Examples/dm/">http://inform-fiction.org/I7Downloads/Examples/dm/</a></p> <p>There's a surprisingly complex magic system of linked associations at play there. And that's a pretty short example game.</p> Oh, but speaking of ability to complex things in Inform 7, one of the examples at which I've peeked is "Damnatio Memoriae":

http://inform-fiction.org/I7Downloads/Examples/dm/

There's a surprisingly complex magic system of linked associations at play there. And that's a pretty short example game.

]]> By: l.m.orchard http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10571 l.m.orchard Tue, 02 May 2006 00:32:26 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10571 <p>Tim: Yeah, I've been kind of wondering about that too. I've not ever really played for more than two minutes with Inform 6 and below, but I wonder if there are some particularly tricky things that Inform 7 won't make easy? On the other hand, from everything I've read, Inform 7 is a frontend to Inform 6 almost as C++ is a frontend to C. I wonder if you can drop down a level, if need be?</p> Tim: Yeah, I've been kind of wondering about that too. I've not ever really played for more than two minutes with Inform 6 and below, but I wonder if there are some particularly tricky things that Inform 7 won't make easy? On the other hand, from everything I've read, Inform 7 is a frontend to Inform 6 almost as C++ is a frontend to C. I wonder if you can drop down a level, if need be?

]]> By: Moss Collum http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10570 Moss Collum Tue, 02 May 2006 00:12:58 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10570 <p>Oh wow, that looks delicious.</p> <p>The screenshots of the Transcript make me want something like that for unit testing code in more ordinary programming languages.</p> Oh wow, that looks delicious.

The screenshots of the Transcript make me want something like that for unit testing code in more ordinary programming languages.

]]> By: Tim Lopez http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10547 Tim Lopez Mon, 01 May 2006 20:16:27 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10547 <p>Inform 7 looks very cool -- I plan to try it out -- although I wonder if the verbose language won't get in the way for experienced users. For example, can you imagine what writing a shell script in English would look like?</p> <p>It is a pity that the source for the command line tools is not available; an Emacs version of the console would be really appealing.</p> Inform 7 looks very cool -- I plan to try it out -- although I wonder if the verbose language won't get in the way for experienced users. For example, can you imagine what writing a shell script in English would look like?

It is a pity that the source for the command line tools is not available; an Emacs version of the console would be really appealing.

]]> By: l.m.orchard http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10546 l.m.orchard Mon, 01 May 2006 19:19:55 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10546 <p>Martin - apropos of that, I just read this bit in the documentation a little while ago:</p> <blockquote> <p>2.12. Accented letters</p> <p>Inform 7 is infused by the English language and for the present it would be difficult to write a work of IF in any other language with it. (Inform 6 remains a practical tool for non-English IF, though, having been translated into French, Italian, Spanish, German, and a number of other languages.)</p> </blockquote> Martin - apropos of that, I just read this bit in the documentation a little while ago:

2.12. Accented letters

Inform 7 is infused by the English language and for the present it would be difficult to write a work of IF in any other language with it. (Inform 6 remains a practical tool for non-English IF, though, having been translated into French, Italian, Spanish, German, and a number of other languages.)

]]> By: Martin Atkins http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10544 Martin Atkins Mon, 01 May 2006 19:11:03 +0000 http://decafbad.com/blog/2006/05/01/inform-7-is-insanely-wonderful-and-full-of-words#comment-10544 <p>One interesting side-effect of it being based on English is that it presumably makes it harder to use for someone who is attempting to write a story in another language. That doesn't really bother me, as a native English speaker, but that doesn't stop me wondering exactly what it would take to adapt Inform to mimick another language.</p> One interesting side-effect of it being based on English is that it presumably makes it harder to use for someone who is attempting to write a story in another language. That doesn't really bother me, as a native English speaker, but that doesn't stop me wondering exactly what it would take to adapt Inform to mimick another language.

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